Anyone else not really like the film or have critiques?

Discussion in 'The Last Jedi (Contains Spoilers)' started by zxthehedgehog, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. zxthehedgehog

    zxthehedgehog Jedi Master

    As a fan, I thought it did a poor job of using the story already established in The Force Awakens. It was very clear Rian Johnson had a completely different vision for the series than J.J. Abrams did, and I think the result didn't work well within the series universe.

    I could go on here (Canto Bight, etc.), but I though I'd ask: Anyone else feel this way? If so, what stood out to you in the film as flawed or problematic?
     
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  2. JasonA

    JasonA Jedi Master

    I didn't like the film at all. IMO in general, it was poorly-written and took too many liberties with The Force and SW storytelling technique. And turned Luke into a big joke that wasn't funny. Lucas' prequels are better than the sequels at this point. Aside from Rogue One, it's clear to me now that Disney is driving Star Wars into the ground.
     
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  3. williarob

    williarob Administrator Staff Member

    I think this is the biggest problem at Disney right now. Reading the Art of The Last Jedi book it was made clear that every Star Wars film still takes a minimum of 3 years from pre-production to screen, so story lines for Last Jedi were being worked on at about the same time The Force Awakens began filming. At Pinewood, the films are being filmed back to back.

    I quite enjoyed The Last Jedi, but it was clear that Johnson inherited certain characters and story lines that he didn't really care about or want to continue - killing Snoke without even letting Andy Serkis get out of his chair seems the most obvious indication of this.

    Was it like this in the expanded universe of books? I read the first 8 or 9 books in the early 90s, but there quickly became so many new authors and so many new books that I just couldn't keep up. Some were really good, some were pretty bad, but they were all supposed to co-ordinate with each other to a certain extent, in order not to contradict each other.
     
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  4. a_o

    a_o Jedi Master

    The question that sparked the writing process of TFA was "Who is Luke Skywalker?"

    I think it made sense that Luke still had a bit of (his father's) fear, and that Snoke's manipulation of Ben Solo catalyzed it.

    "If you wish to become a complete and wise leader, you must embrace a larger view of the force" — one that acknowledges that the political climate of the galaxy, and the Skywalker family/bloodline centered in this decade-spanning conflict that causes tons of destruction and death (excluding the droid army lol) is pretty much irrelevant to the Force, itself, at large. I think that's part of the reason the Jedi as a religion disallowed love/marriage/procreation — Force-sensitives getting all dynastic, legacy and ego-driven, just ended up thinning their ranks drastically.

    Luke being a Legendary Infallible Superhero Forever is not a very interesting story to continue to tell, some 30 years on from his origin in all this. The movie writers would be doing a discredit to the millions of young people growing into maturity watching these films, and older folks that grew up with the original trilogy by pretending as much. This trilogy is not a redundant victory lap/class reunion.

    Getting Snoke out of the picture was essential to Kylo being held or holding himself accountable for his actions in the next movie, wether he abandons the dark side or not. Agency. Personal accountability. Making one's own choices. Consequences.

    Finn and Rose pretty much lose the fight in their opportunism and altruism (respectively), by talking too much about secret Rebel plans and strategies in front of DJ, who they don't know or really trust, who then goes on to sell them out to save his own skin.

    Poe, hotshot pilot that probably thinks he's invincible at this point, gets most of the fleet killed, but it teaches him how to be a better leader and defer to the actual goal of the resistance. Learning the true cost of the war they're fighting.

    If the characters are truly heroes or villains, they gotta have stronger motivations than simply being captive to enigmatic puppeteers and aged narratives binaries about what is right (or wrong). They gotta actually consider what's at stake in pursuit of good (or evil).
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  5. Rogue Trooper

    Rogue Trooper Jedi Master

    I hated it. Thought it was a stinker. For a variety of reasons, it's just a bad film. Was so excited going in to the the theater and left disappointed and angry.

    Not hopeful at all for any of the future films and will certainly never take critics at their word ever again.

    For what it's worth, everyone I know personally who likes Star Wars, loved it. Though it was just me until I looked on Youtube lol
     
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  6. SkyDude

    SkyDude Jedi Master Staff Member

    For me it did not have any of the "Star Wars" feeling from the original trilogy that I love. The "humor" was just plain stupid and misplaced, except for those nuns on the island and Yoda and at times the Porgs perhaps. Nothing led to anything of importance. Nothing very wise nor any good morals to be learned from it (it's good to be kind to animals tho). And where is the character development? Pathetic political propaganda inserted everywhere... Seems to be created by nihilists...nothing is good or bad and nothing really means anything...very contradicting to the original mythology.
    Nah...can't say I loved it either. :p But it didn't ruin the originals for me in any way as I don't see them as even being in the same universe...an alternate reality maybe.
    Perhaps I can enjoy it as 3D popcorn entertainment in the future tho, when it's cringeworthiness has faded away somewhat.
    Time will tell....
    Either way this is faaaar from being on the same level as the genius masterpieces of the past (IV and V an VI to some extent).
    I left the cinema half-way through in anger and disappointment...then watched the last part by downloading a cam version via torrent, not wanting to spend more money on it. But who knows...might be I end up buying the 3D Blu-Ray for this one also. :p

    To me this guy is pretty much on point:
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
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  7. FrankT

    FrankT Jedi Master

    It had some fun moments but in the end it left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Besides, when even the cast hates it, you know something is very, very wrong! Hopefully JJ will get things back on track.

    Luke dusting himself off after being shot was hilarious, though.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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  8. fmalover

    fmalover Jedi Knight

    I have a question. Am I an extraterrestial being? Because seriously, reading through these boards I find myself being the only one who thouroughly disliked TFA and loved TLJ, and the main reason I love TLJ is the way it completely disregards TFA and breaks free of the established SW formula, while at the same time feeling sad about the fact JJ Abrams will helm episode IX, because his movies are nothing but recreations of the pop culture he enjoyed in his childhood and teenage years, and IMO the only valid comparison to Spielberg is that he poorly imitates him.
     
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  9. zxthehedgehog

    zxthehedgehog Jedi Master

    Spielberg doesn't imitate the 80's? Have you seen the trailer for Ready Player One? :)

    In all seriousness, though, you're not alone. Critics loved The Last Jedi for almost that exact same reason, though as fans we have a habit of picking apart the directorial choices and mythology. I'll be devoting a separate thread to what was good about the film, but this thread is mostly about what could be better.
     
  10. williarob

    williarob Administrator Staff Member

    Ready Player One is based on a book by Ernest Cline, a child of the '80s, who grew up watching Spielberg films and wrote a book full of nostalgia for that period - so it's kind of cool that Spielberg decided to do the film - who better to imitate 80's Spielberg moments than the man himself? If you have nostalgia for the '80s and Spielberg films of the period, you should read the book, it's pretty good. His second book, Armada, is a lot like The Last Starfighter.
     
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  11. zxthehedgehog

    zxthehedgehog Jedi Master

    I’ve read both. Armada is also absolutely begging for an adaptation to the silver screen, with its Guardians-style mixtape soundtrack, space battles, and interstellar scale.

    But anyways, we’re getting a bit off topic here.
     
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  12. Blackout

    Blackout Jedi Master

    I would rather Luke's urging to kill his nephew have come as a result of Luke's immersing himself in the "sacred Jedi texts", rather than a simple lapse in judgement. That way, the theme introduced of the Jedi being vanity (or whatever Luke's spiel was about) could not only play a much more significant role in Luke's arc, but also much more satisfactorily explain why Luke couldn't bring himself to kill Vader but seriously considered doing so to his nephew, and in an interesting and thought-provoking way.
     
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  13. Setzer

    Setzer Jedi Master

    The only time where this trainwreck felt like Star Wars, was when Chewie flew the Falcon through that giant crystal cave. That, and the music accompanying that shot/sequence - it really felt like Star Wars.
    It actually took me right back to playing Rebel Assault 2 :D
     
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  14. flametitan

    flametitan Padawan

    I feel as torn on the film as Kylo Ren is between the Dark and the Light. There are so many moments I loved, but the product as a whole leaves me wondering why it was necessary to make it a sequel to the OT, rather than a reboot or spin-off. Obviously it can't be a new IP; the whole point of buying Lucasfilms was for the Star Wars IP. Like it's interesting, but it doesn't feel like a true continuation of the story.
     
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  15. williarob

    williarob Administrator Staff Member

    So I've been reading the novelization and I'm more than half way through now. I was hoping for some insight into certain scenes, but so far it's mostly just describing what we saw on screen. I did learn that the rebel bombers apparently work because the bombs are magnetic. Perhaps the rebel ship is made of plastic to prevent them flipping over and coming back?

    I'm not a scientist but what's wrong with this picture?:

    "When his energy counter hit full, Poe yelled for BB-8 to punch it. A moment later Black One leapt forward as if kicked, propelled by the experimental booster engine grafted to the starfighter’s stern.
    For a moment Poe feared he’d black out, overcome by g-forces like nothing he’d ever experienced behind the stick."

    urm... doesn't the "g" in "g-forces" stand for gravity? And in the absence of gravity would Poe even feel the push? Honestly, I don't know, but it still bothered me. Something I am sure of though is that the whole ships running out of fuel thing makes no sense. Not because the ships don't need fuel - that makes perfect sense. What doesn't make any sense though is the earthbound logic used in the film. If they were being pursued on earth, on land in the air or on water, and the medical frigate ran out of fuel, it would quickly slow to a stop and either crash or be caught and destroyed. But they are in space. If they run out of fuel at 500 MPH in space and the engines stop... They keep going 500 MPH until they crash into something, and that could take years. They lose all maneuverability for sure, but they sure as hell don't slow down.

    And I still can't stand the Rose & Finn side show.
     
  16. dahmage

    dahmage Jedi Master

    Of course acceleration results in g-forces. Gravity isn't the cause any more than it is the cause of the g-forces felt in earthbound fighter jets. It's just a convenient measuring stick.
     
  17. oohteedee

    oohteedee Jedi Master Staff Member

    One thing you can’t see is their acceleration. If you have fuel to power thrusters you can keep accelerating. If you run out of fuel you keep traveling at the same speed but the ship behind can keep accelerating and eventually catch up to you.
    From the perspective of the bad guys the ship in front looks to be slowing down. From the perspective of the good guys the ship behind looks like it’s speeding up, but you may also notice the loss of acceleration.

    But yeah being low in fuel was a silly plot point for me. They should have put more than “5 bucks worth” in at the last stop.
     
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  18. williarob

    williarob Administrator Staff Member

    Maybe there's artificial gravity in the cockpit too.
     
  19. I still can’t get past when Poe says “the sun” in TFA when describing the Death Star 3.0. ‘The sun’ is very specifically our star. As in the one we orbit around. Takes me out of the story 100% every time
     
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  20. cptcrut

    cptcrut Jedi Master

    I'll say this on it, it wasn't awful, and it's awfulness is over rated. I watched this one 3 times and fell asleep, and think to myself every time, I thought Trek was supposed to be the boring franchise.
    Out of the sequel trilogy, I've had more fun watching Trek films, than I have these. The sequels suffer from the lack of Lucas' presence, the Prequels suffered from too much Lucas.
    TLJ had more character development than TFA, it took me a while to get over hating these films after TFA, I despised TFA, and skipped watching this one in the theater. When I first saw TFA, I thought, how can this film be better with fan edits, obviously, not a good way to see the film from the first to last scenes on the opening day. But I think that these films are salvageable, are they gorgeous yes? Could they use a bit more Thrawn? absolutely. I'm hoping that Abrams splits episode 9 into two films, so I have enough material to work with on my fan edit. I'd also love to have access to more deleted footage. My dream project would require that use deep fakes though, I'd create a trilogy set between TFA and ROTJ, that would merge elements of Shattered Empire and the Sequels with the Thrawn Trilogy. Getting finance, and filming around the globe without Disney knowing would be the bitch of the situation, but that's a pipe dream at this point.
     

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