Anyone else not really like the film or have critiques?

Discussion in 'The Last Jedi' started by zxthehedgehog, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. cptcrut

    cptcrut Jedi Master

    I'd also need voice actors that could emulate the vocal range of at least Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, and Harrison Ford. I have a shortlist for those voice actors, with one actor that could play Han Solo, without needing to be dubbed, whether he would agree to the project would be difficult. My other pipe dream would be to get Cherrie Jones to do Leia scenes in my fan edit, after I use a deep fake technology to emulate Fisher's face.
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  2. cptcrut

    cptcrut Jedi Master

    I'd want to create light field cameras for VFX experiments, acquire Russian anamorphic lenses, and design a modular lense system, while filming on an Apertus Axiom. The earliest I could start that project would be after episode 9, which would become episode 12 after my trilogy, if anyone liked it enough. The problem would come down to emulating Lucas' and Kurtz style of film, while mirroring both the prequels, and Prime Trilogy in this trilogy. Thrawn would make the best villain, but I'd love to have Jorus C'Baoth and Luke square off in the third film.
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  3. williarob

    williarob Administrator Staff Member

  4. cptcrut

    cptcrut Jedi Master

    The finest Plinkett will always be 7.
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  5. LuketheNerd

    LuketheNerd Jedi Master

    I don't like Plinkett because it's really what kicked off the major Prequel hate.
  6. Mavimao

    Mavimao Jedi Master

    The first time I saw the film I left the theater perplexed. It took me a couple days to digest what I just saw but I came out of this period of meditation loving this film.

    It has a few rough edges, but the message it sends is fantastic. We’re not perfect, but we need to learn from our mistakes to be the best we can be. We can’t just obsess about the past and have it consume us.

    Hermit, depressed Luke (which was how he was set up in TFA, for anyone who thought this came out of left field in TLJ) was a wonderful twist. Had he been super saiyan Luke like many of us were expecting, there would have been no urgency. It would have been: let’s leave this island and kick butt!

    Rian gave him an arch that many people in our society can relate to: depression can happen to anyone and it can be debilitating. But there is always hope and we can always find a better path.

    Luke going from absolutely rejecting the Force to then welcoming, being absorbed by and joining it was such a beautiful ending.
  7. SkyDude

    SkyDude Jedi Master Staff Member

    To me it is still a very blasphemous and terribly written and executed "Star Wars movie" with cringy humor, little and very messy character development and bad political agendas baked into it... :oops:

    Hopefully I'll avoid ever again seeing a movie made by that twisted toad of a manbaby filmmaker...

    They could also just as well have shot it using digital cinema cameras and saved some money, because all that gives life to the image is mostly digitally washed off and graded away... Here I enjoy the OT Blu-Rays much more as the color palettes are widened compared to the 35mm camera negatives, whilst this one goes in the opposite direction and decreases them (resulting in an even more nihilistic if there wasn't enough of that factor already).
    Both their grades look pretty synthetic though...

    Like with every bad movie, I could watch it so many times that I'd eventually end up liking it (listen to Britney's "Hit Me Baby One More Time" a large number of times, and you are doomed to dig it)
    ...but I don't plan on doing that as it would not exactly help improve my own personal growth when it comes to production skills and talents... "You become what you eat"..."Crap in, crap out". :p

    I'd rather watch older masterpieces from other universes than waste any more of my time on this one. "Independence Day" (1996) is seen as a masterpiece in this even has lots and lots of amazing practical effects filmed using motion control cameras (I'm a bit unlucky these days as todays CGI does not really do it for me...unconsciously I always notice somehow that what I am seeing did not actually exist).
    ...And now my movie plans for the evening have been made...unless I get completely dragged into The SkyMaster Cleanup Zone that is.... ;)
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
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  8. LuketheNerd

    LuketheNerd Jedi Master

    Bad political agendas?

    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and not immediately assume that you mean "women in authority." Though every iota of my existence is telling me to go with my gut.
  9. SkyDude

    SkyDude Jedi Master Staff Member

    No no, it is much more than that... But I am not here to discuss this movie.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  10. Setzer

    Setzer Jedi Master

    Both the original and prequel trilogy had women in positions of high authority - even the animated shows have had it too. All of them well executed.
    Most of the characters in this film are just awfully written. But awful writing is - in my opinion - a permeating problem with the movie.
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  11. williarob

    williarob Administrator Staff Member

    I think the problem is that Lucasfilm is struggling to grasp the language of mythology. The feminine principle in mythology, for example, is not something to treat lightly by making female characters the driving force of a story just for the sake of equality. Equality and diversity matters. But myth is not about gender. Myth is about symbolism. Disney's Lucasfilm is expressing the feminine principle in an outward, literal sense, including at the expense of the male mythic archetypes, which makes things doubly worse. If you're dealing in myth, you have to respect how those archetypal characters operate, male and female alike, and be true to their form. It's not a gender competition. It's a craft. Once you lose the symbolism and the subtlety, you've lost everything. That's not a subjective point of view. It's simply the DNA of mythology.

    Reinventing myths is fine. Times change. Myths need updating. For example, where once there was the Arthurian wizard Merlin, Star Wars gave us Obi-Wan Kenobi. Where once there was the samurai blade, Lucas transitioned it into a laser sword. Where once there was Jonah and the Whale and the Belly of the Beast, Star Wars gave us the trash compactor.

    If we have learned anything from the Star Wars saga it is that we all need to find balance, and The Last Jedi swings way past the equality line, elevating all the women above all the men. I think all of the men watching the film were aware of this, as Plinkett is fond of saying "you may not have noticed it - but your brain did". The opposite has been true forever, with men holding nearly all the positions of power both in the real world and on film, so perhaps this is a wake up call for men - a taste of what the world has been like for women for as long as we can remember, but is that really what anyone (male of female) is looking for in a Star Wars film?
  12. JasonA

    JasonA Jedi Master

    Well said, that's exactly what I feel is wrong with the sequels as well.
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  13. LuketheNerd

    LuketheNerd Jedi Master

    I don't think making women main characters is an infringement of archetypes??????????? Also what examples in The Last Jedi are all women above men? I can think of Holdo and Leia.
  14. williarob

    williarob Administrator Staff Member

    It's not that they made the women strong, it's that they made the men pathetic.

    Ray - with no training whatsoever, defeats both Luke Skywalker and Kylo, Finn's new girlfriend dominates him both physically and mentally many times, Poe is put in his place by both Leia and Holdo, in fact on the good gals side I can't think of a single, strong male archetype.
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  15. williarob

    williarob Administrator Staff Member

    Leia was always a very strong character, just as badass as Han and I always saw them on equal footing, whereas with Finn and Rose, Rose clearly has the smarts, the courage and the strength of character, while Finn is just a bafoon.

    The problem is weak writing - imagine for a moment that Holdo had been written as a strong woman leader whom everyone (including Poe) respected without question. When she issued an order Poe would have obeyed eagerly, demonstrating to us all that she was a good leader who clearly knew her stuff and was going to lead the Resistance effectively while Leia recovered. That's equality - nobody is questioning her ability to lead and the men around here are not intimidated by her power or her competence - and her sacrifice would have been even more awesome.

    Instead, the only way the writers could think of to demonstrate how great these women are, was to humiliate all the men around them. "See how great she is compared to this clown?" Why isn't she just great? Why can she only be perceived as great when standing next to a clown?

    It's really not about the elevation of women to the status of main characters or fulfilling leadership roles on screen - I'm all for that, nor is it the fact that in order for that to happen, the men have to relinquish those roles and in many cases become secondary characters.

    Leia was not written to be an idiot in order to make Han and Luke look better - in fact she has to rescue them right after they bungle trying to rescue her! So there has to be a way to make it 2 girls and a guy, instead of 2 guys and a girl, but still have them all on equal footing, and that's just one of the areas where this movie fails horribly.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
  16. Collipso

    Collipso Jedi Master

    I've tirelessly discussed this film at great length over at, and I think I'm finally making up my mind. I'll start by saying I disagree with the people that are saying there's an agenda behind this movie. It simply reflects the more inclusive times we're living in, where minorities are finally stepping up which is a really great thing to see. I don't think any man was ridiculed over the course of the movie to make women look better. Sure there's the scene where Snoke tells Kylo he basically sucks for losing to Rey in TFA, which is a great moment because Snoke represents the audience (or at least me haha), but that moment's not there to make any woman look good or better. You could argue it makes Rey look better, but that's on TFA, not on TLJ. If anything TLJ is making fun of the scene and trying to "correct" it.

    I haven't seen the movie in a while, but I recall not liking the pace of the first hour or so, which felt really weird and un-Star Warsy. It was a pretty big turn off in theaters. Another big turn off was the tonal inconsistency of the movie, with the many many out of place jokes. When the opening crawl was finished and that opening joke with Poe and Hux happened, I was convinced the theater was pranking us and shocked to find out that was actually the movie. I also remember not enjoying the B plot (Canto Bight) very much, even if I really liked the visuals and setpieces of the casino. A highlight of the bad in the casino is the fathier chase. I did, however, thoroughly enjoy Poe in this one, and his arc and his relationship with Holdo and Leia. He learned an important lesson that made him grow a lot as a leader, even if in the first scene (when Leia slaps him), HE's the one that's right, not her (IMO). But that's almost beyond the point. I also loved Luke's arc, the best part in the movie to me, and enjoyed Kylo's arc. If not for Rey (a character that annoys me more than Jar Jar), I would've loved the A plot and I'm pretty sure I'd have enjoyed this movie much more.

    That said, I dislike the movie. I don't have positive or negative feelings towards Rose, but that "saving what we love" speech when she literally condemned everyone to death by saving Finn and being incredibly selfish makes me not like her at all. That goes directly against what her sister died for! Maybe I don't get her point though, I don't know. Some people claim that Finn wouldn't have been able to destroy the Imperial tech so he was sacrificing himself for nothing but I strongly disagree. Finn had a really nice arc in this, but besides that I don't really have anything to say.

    The one thing regarding Luke's arc I REALLY don't like is him even considering murdering Ben, even for that split second. Like, sure everyone gives in to one's instincts every once in a while and all, but contemplating killing his nephew the exact opposite of what Luke stands for! If not for that, and for the fact that he died at the end, Luke would've been handled perfectly in this movie IMO. Hamill delivers the best performance in the movie by far, his performance alone making the movie worth seeing. It actually highlights the bad dialogue, because it's easy to differ bad dialogue being delivered poorly and wonderfully (such as when he was in a scene with Ridley).

    And finally, Rey and Kylo. Their dynamic was pretty awesome, with the force skype calls and all, but I almost hate Rey. I can barely enjoy any scene she's in at this point. She's to me what Anakin in the prequels is to most of you guys. She basically undermines everything Luke achieved in the OT in TFA, and this aspect is carried over to TLJ, unfortunately. She's just such a Mary Sue. And she's annoying. Kylo, on the other hand, is almost likeable to me. I was rooting for him in this movie, and really liked when he killed Snoke. That was a pretty cool moment.

    I wish they hadn't killed Snoke though, but not because I wanted to hear him telling us his backstory, but because I wanted him to explain to us how the First Order came to be and how he turned Ben over to the dark side, and give a little more context to the ST. And this lack of context is one of the aspects that's been hurting the ST the most.

    Anyway, I probably won't be watching this or TFA again any time soon. I guess I'll just stick to Lucas' original 6 and the Anthology movies
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  17. SkyDude

    SkyDude Jedi Master Staff Member

    This guy explains some of the issues I personally have with TLJ very well:

    And, yeah, Coolipso... Rey is EXTREMELY annoying! Too bad, as she is the main character. :oops:
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  18. cptcrut

    cptcrut Jedi Master

    My big issue with Rey is that she has no real struggle, not in her development.
    Unlike Luke or Anakin, Mary Sue was handed everything, of course, when you have a ham fisted executive and a wannabe David Lynch who both shall go un named in this post, that's just what happens. Hopefully said executive gets the boot in the coming years. My big complaint is this, Rey isn't a character that is developed or rounded, and I don't blame Daisy Ridley for this, as she has literally nothing to work with.
    Snoke wasn't developed, Rey wasn't developed, and Ben Solo is sort of developed.
    These films were rushed. You can get the cinematography right, and the visuals right, but there is no story here.
    Abrams was a good choice for director, but Disney should have taken more time with these films.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
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  19. benw20

    benw20 Padawan

    Ignoring all of the genders, myth, lore etc etc etc for a second.

    The entire "A to B" journey of TLJ is: A bunch of rebels are over here, but now they're over HERE and there's far less of them.

    There is no new information or mysteries uncovered. Basically a bunch of people die because upper management makes stupid decisions continuously. That's the whole plot.

    Absolute garbage film making.
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  20. GZK8000

    GZK8000 Jedi Master

    That's completely unfair to The Last Jedi, because the same criticism could have been said about The Empire Strikes Back, and yet I haven't seen people disliking TESB for being a little thin in the plot department compared with SW and RotJ.

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