Anyone else not really like the film or have critiques?

Discussion in 'The Last Jedi' started by zxthehedgehog, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. JasonA

    JasonA Jedi Master

    Not the same thing. TESB new information/mystery: Vader is Luke's father. That's a pretty big plot point, to say nothing of the character arc Luke goes through. Last Jedi had nothing even close to anything like that going on.
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  2. GZK8000

    GZK8000 Jedi Master

    What about finding out why Luke abandoned the entire galaxy and self-exiled, or Rey's story? Or Kylo Ren doing what Vader planned to do in TESB (to overthrow the big bad dude)?
    LuketheNerd and dahmage like this.
  3. Quattro Bajeena

    Quattro Bajeena Padawan

    Very funny movie, especially the Poe's joke call and the pizza shaped ship, it made me want a 35mm restoration of Space Balls.

    (just joking, sorry but I can't take this movie seriously lol)
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  4. zxthehedgehog

    zxthehedgehog Jedi Master

    In Empire, though, there was a significant revelation that changed current character dynamics. Vader being Luke's father completely changed the relations between the two, and its significance was demonstrated by Luke's powerful emotions in that film's ending. The problem is, Rey finding out her parents were "nobody" doesn't change anything fundamental about her character, as we see her in the next scene doing exactly what she was doing before with no real justification in doing so. It completely robs any significance from the rebellion other than following a leader, which just shows them to be as bad as the Empire.

    So what? Snoke did nothing. Rey's parents were no one. That's not interesting information; it gives no payoff for the story so far.

    Luke's betrayal of Kylo is also kind of meaningless. We already know he hated the resistance, so the information doesn't change anything about him significantly. Luke also entirely backs down from his initial stance, so his position for staying on the island was ultimately pointless to know as well.

    The only real character development in the film was with Finn and Rose, whose plot is widely considered to be shoehorned into the movie anyway. But even that is undermined by a forced love angle that isn't well justified to begin with. Her character is very environmental and ethical, which being that it is a fictional world with unrealistic CG creatures gives the viewer very little basis for attachment to her. The film also goes out of its way to introduce shades of grey in the dichotomous world of Star Wars with Benicio Del Toro's DJ, which goes against the very core of the point with the FO/Resistance relationship - that of the Big Bad vs. the Little Guy archetype. If the Rebellion/Resistance is not a good against the Empire/First Order's evil, then that sense of the battle's meaning is lost.

    And I think that this is the ultimate problem with The Last Jedi - it either misses or forgets the essential meaning of the film franchise. It's a battle of good against evil, with classic characters and a distinctive tone. The more of that you take away, the less like a Star Wars film it is.

    I think Rian tried to do too much with the film - he clearly had a direction in mind, but had no idea how he wanted to pursue it. The resulting film was messy and convoluted; it had far too many plot threads and many which contradicted each other morally. In an effort to take the story under his control, he lost a lot of the potential the previous film had built up, creating a directionless middle act that failed to meet fans' expectations.
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  5. williarob

    williarob Administrator Staff Member

    I think that sums it up nicely.
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  6. fmalover

    fmalover Jedi Knight

    I think I should stay away from any online discussion about TLJ because each and every single one of them are all about how the movie ruined SW, pot shots thrown at Johnson and Kennedy, and I'm just sick of all the negative feedback.
  7. zxthehedgehog

    zxthehedgehog Jedi Master

    Don’t worry; that’s not the goal here. The film has earned a rather toxic reputation on the Internet recently; the reality is that it was just divisive within the fandom. This is far from the worst thing to come out of the franchise, and certainly didn’t “ruin” it.

    Similarly, I don’t wish to bash Kennedy or Johnson for this film, especially due to its technical merits. Johnson took on a daunting task directing this franchise, and while I disagree with the direction he took with the characters, I still respect him for trying to put his own vision into the property. While the final result left something to be desired, in my opinion, that is neither a personal attack against the man or against Lucasfilm itself. It simply aims to discuss the topic, talking about what could have been improved and where the film’s flaws may lie.

    We also have a thread here discussing positive elements; this thread is mainly dedicated to discussing the negative side of things and what individuals on this forum had problems with in the film. But it’s not at all about demeaning individuals or negativity. It’s about analysis; looking at the film and making sense of it through discussion.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  8. Oswarez

    Oswarez Jedi Knight

    I dug it for the most part. It looks amazing and the frame composition is fantastic in the bigger scenes. The designs are all top notch. The humour I felt was a bit miss placed at times and too slap sticky but what bothered me the most were the amount of sentient animals, like the progs and those creepy horse critters, also I felt the casino was too close to what casinos are here on earth, with characters dressing in actual tuxedoes.
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  9. benw20

    benw20 Padawan

    I can't decide if I hated it more than the "50s diner" in Episode II.
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