Anyone else not really like the film or have critiques?

Discussion in 'The Last Jedi' started by zxthehedgehog, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. scottj85

    scottj85 Initiate

    Honestly I wasn't even sure what I thought of it the first time around, it wasn't until I'd seen it a second time that I started to see what Rian Johnson was going for, and a third viewing before I was sure I actually liked it.
     
    williarob likes this.
  2. ashdoginc

    ashdoginc Initiate

    I see Ivan Ortega's Last Jedi re-edit has been released. And it raises many questions for me. While Star Wars film restorations are not legal, you can argue they are ethical. But I am not sure I can make an ethical argument for fan edits like this one. Ivan Ortega has gone one step further and built a YouTube channel based of him making this fan edit. And, like many fan edits, he has stipulated you must own a legal copy of the official film before watching it... which, from my way of thinking, certainly doesn't make it legal or ethical. You could argue Ivan is breaking copyright as means to create some level of income, as he doesn't appear to have any relating costs burdening him to create it. If he isn't making an income from it, it is a possibility somebody else could do a similar thing and create an income. The danger, I think, is that Lucasfilm/Disney starts making a move to protect their intellectual property (and who could blame them).
     
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  3. zxthehedgehog

    zxthehedgehog Jedi Master

    I'm not worried. If people made a product which improved on my own, didn't charge for it and gave the only condition for receiving it as paying me money, I'd turn a blind eye too.

    There's a bit of a mutual agreement between fan editors and studios, honestly - the Blu-ray of Raising Cain shipped with a fan edit based on De Palma's original script, and the most recent release of Waterworld had an HD version of the Ulysses Cut on disc, which returned the original dialogue and violence to the extended TV cut.
     
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  4. SkyDude

    SkyDude Jedi Master Staff Member

    I would totally blame them. If they cannot release something better than us they are not fit for the task of preserving and presenting this important cultural heritage...
    It is "their" property on paper, but it is also everyone's. They should spend their money and time on producing the best versions ever, not on being twats who attack those who want to give the fans (who funded it all) what they deserve....

    (I did not fully read the comment I see now and assumed it was also about the Original Trilogy :p They should let people be creative and try to remember that that is their main task too...which I think Disney partially has forgotten these days).
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
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  5. ashdoginc

    ashdoginc Initiate

    Ethically if people want to do fan-edits, they shouldn't try to profit from it. And I think you could argue Ivan Ortega is (I don't know for sure) through his youtube channel... and potentially putting non-profit projects at risk.
     
  6. ChainsawAsh

    ChainsawAsh Jedi Master

    Pretty sure at one point he said he was trying to earn enough from his Patreon and YouTube channel (both directly tied to his TLJ edit) to quit his job and work on the edit full time...which sounds highly unethical and exactly like profiting off of someone else's IP to me.

    I could be mistaken. I stopped following his project when it became clear that the level of quality wasn't going to come close to the basic standard of modern fan edits.
     
  7. cptcrut

    cptcrut Jedi Master

    At this point, I don't even think the sequel trilogy is salvageable. It was obvious when the millennium falcon tried to kill Harrison Ford, and everything else that followed.
    I hate to say it, I think I'll be skipping out on 9.
     
  8. Tom Arrow

    Tom Arrow Jedi Knight

    Well, if he earns money from his Youtube channel, that's not from the edit itself, but from talking about the edit. I know it sounds like a petty distinction, but ultimately it's a similar situation to film journalism. Clearly talking about how you would edit a movie isn't illegal. You could make a Youtube channel centered around talking about potential edits which you never intend to release and thus always stay legally completely in the clear, same as you can make a review channel talking about other people's IPs and giving your thoughts. He's not making any money off of the edit itself after all.

    Another thought, there's always the technical possibility of only sharing the project file, in which case I think there's absolutely nothing that can be done from a legal standpoint to prevent it or even condemn it in any way. You could upload a Premiere/Vegas/whatever project without any assets and all someone would have to do is load their own bought version of the movie into the project and render it out.

    So I think ultimately it's in no way unethical if he monetizes his channel. If that was unethical, you would have to consider review channels that are monetized unethical as well and that opens a weird can of worms. In fact I would argue it's more ethical in his case, since he is putting more personal creativity and original work into it than someone who is just commenting on a movie.
     
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  9. zxthehedgehog

    zxthehedgehog Jedi Master

    What bothers me a bit is that he posted his edit directly linked through his Patreon. Yes, you didn't have to pay to access it, but you were directed to a site encouraging his being paid monthly for the service of continuing his fanedits.
     
  10. Tom Arrow

    Tom Arrow Jedi Knight

    I found it through his Youtube channel and a video he posted there, linking to bitchute.
     
  11. zxthehedgehog

    zxthehedgehog Jedi Master

    Fair enough. Anyway, let's head back more on topic.

    In my opinion, one of the most consistent improvements in the various edits done for The Last Jedi so far is in the scene with Leia in space. Both the Clean Cut variant (with Luke using the Force) and the Rekindled edit (removing the spacewalk entirely, cutting to Leia on life support) seem to work far better in the film to me than the original version ever did. Does anyone else have a scene like that which really stood out like that in the original movie, which either has been fixed in edits or deserves a fix?
     
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  12. ChainsawAsh

    ChainsawAsh Jedi Master

    Poppasketti shifted the music in the saber toss a bit which no longer makes it feel like a cheap joke, and cut one shot of the milk drinking so it actually focuses on Rey's revulsion instead of us watching Luke just being gross, which makes the scene actually work.
     
  13. InitAbsolute

    InitAbsolute Padawan

    To me personally, the "Luke saving Leia" thing in the Clean Cut didn't really work for me, because it seemed that Leia holding her hand up still made it seem that really she was having the control. Furthermore, the cutting felt a bit off due to the angles of the shots (constantly switching between a close-up angle and a semi-wide angle) but that's hard to change without some serious work. I'm one of the few people who didn't mind the Leia spacewalk so much, but I did like Rekindled's approach too.
     
    ChainsawAsh likes this.

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